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Like A Rolling Stone (with Kyle Franz Golf Course Architect) Episode 295

Like A Rolling Stone (with Kyle Franz Golf Course Architect)

· 01:55:41

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What does it take to build a golf course people will still be discussing and debating thirty years from now?

In this episode of The Bag Drop: Untold Stories in Golf, host Matt Considine and co-host Dr. Kevin Moore (a.k.a. "The Professor") sit down with Kyle Franz (founder of Kyle Franz Golf Design), the architect behind the restorations at Mid Pines, Pine Needles and Southern Pines, Karoo at Cabot Citrus Farms, and Broomsedge with Mike Koprowski. Kyle walked onto Pacific Dunes as a 19-year-old intern for Tom Doak and has been pushing the edges of classical architecture ever since. This time he brings the story of Whispering Pines, an Ellis Maples course near his home rebuilt with a small crew, a tight plan and a price point meant for everyday golfers.

The conversation dives into:
  • Pacific Dunes from the inside: a $35 twilight round at Bandon, a dozer spotted on No. 5, and the Tom Doak email Kyle still carries in his bag
  • Why Donald Ross is golf's Rolling Stones, and why Frank and Ellis Maples deserve more of the Pinehurst credit
  • Edgy on purpose: Citizen Kane, the Velvet Underground, and why Kyle is fine if not everyone loves what he builds
  • Whispering Pines' Moneyball approach: eight people through the winter, sand played as waste areas, and a green fee built for high school teams and Friday flights out of New York
  • Why a golf course is a band, not a solo act, from Joey Hancock on Broomsedge to a street artist shaping bunkers in Texas
Connect with our guest
πŸ—οΈ Kyle Franz β€” https://www.kylefranzgolf.com β€” 🐦 X/Twitter: https://x.com/KyleFranzGolf

Join the NewClub community
🌍 Website: https://www.newclub.golf

Links & Partners
πŸ‘• Holderness & Bourne: https://www.hbgolf.com
β›³ Country Club of Whispering Pines: https://countryclubofwhisperingpines.com

The Bag Drop
🎧 Website: https://thebagdrop.fm/

Connect with Matt & The Professor
πŸŽ™οΈ Matt Considine β€” 🐦 X/Twitter: https://x.com/consequential85 | πŸ“Έ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/consequence18/ | πŸ’Ό LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/matt-considine-103bb21/
πŸ“š Dr. Kevin Moore ("The Professor") β€” 🐦 X/Twitter: https://x.com/kevcmoore | πŸ“Έ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/kevcmoore | πŸ’Ό LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kevin-moore-177b30b3/
πŸ—£οΈ Contribute to the show! β€” πŸ“§ email: thebagdrop@newclub.golf

Chapters
00:00 Cold open: Kyle Franz on the five who set golf's course in America
00:45 Welcome, and the Mid Pines walk that got the Professor back into golf
02:12 Story time: the drivers-only league night
08:47 The Professor's teaching: two years of every decade on your phone
11:34 Introducing Kyle Franz and Whispering Pines
13:29 Holderness & Bourne: the polo that started at Winged Foot
15:22 Kyle Franz joins: can an architect have a favorite?
17:49 Pacific Dunes at 19: was the public ready for it?
24:28 Doak's reversible course and the case for edgy design
27:54 Confidence in the dirt: Tom Doak's email to a 19-year-old
29:43 $35 twilight at Bandon and a dozer on No. 5
34:50 History as a tool: what the old links really looked like
39:29 Citizen Kane, the Velvet Underground and patience with edgy work
41:33 Donald Ross, the Rolling Stones of golf
45:23 Frank and Ellis Maples, and Robert Hunter's verdict
48:17 Raleigh Country Club: Ross, McGovern and Maples in one course
52:52 Hidden gems: Fraserburgh and a green in Rio
59:37 Karoo and the category-five hurricane brief
1:02:45 Whispering Pines: waste areas and only a few rakes
1:08:27 Putting a number on affordable
1:13:11 Moneyball shaping: a small crew and a Bear Bryant speech
1:16:45 Long-term planning: Minikahda and the pond on six
1:21:55 Delegation: Hanse in the dozer, Coore on the Sand Pro, Doak on foot
1:29:13 Casting the crew: Luling's barrancas and a street artist's bunkers
1:35:39 Broomsedge, Mike Koprowski and those flagsticks
1:43:14 It takes a band: why great courses are collaborative
1:50:06 Tour pros as architects: Crenshaw, the Prairie Club and Tom Lehman at Cal Club
2:05:06 What's next for Kyle, and thanks
2:06:35 Holderness & Bourne: Andrew Bailey, from the merch tent to Pebble Beach

What is NewClub?
A golf club without the real estate. One membership, a rotation of great courses, tee times, competitions, trips already on the calendar, and people who love the game the way you do. We play as visitors of the clubs and courses that host us, and those relationships are the heart of what we do.

What is The Bag Drop?
Deeply researched audio documentaries telling the stories behind golf's greatest clubs, plus weekly conversations with the characters and communities shaping golf today. Hosted by NewClub founder Matt Considine and The Professor, Dr. Kevin Moore.

View episode transcript


Creators and Guests

Matt Considine
Host
Matt Considine
Founder of NewClub and our resident feel player. Matt’s junior golf career led him to the University of Akron where he met our co-host. During his junior year, Matt Studied abroad in Ireland and discovered golf societies. Subsequent trips to Scotland fed his passion for the history, ideals, and culture of accessible, affordable, and sustainable golf, a concept he would later bring to the U.S. with NewClub. Known for his interviewing style, quick wit, and compelling storytelling, Matt brings thoughtful, reflective conversations to The Bag Drop. His professional journey before NewClub included multiple leadership positions in growth-stage startups, where he managed teams responsible for more than $250 million in revenue. Matt actively gives back to the game as a Board Member of the First Tee of Akron and past chair of the Evans Scholar Foundation. Proudly based in his hometown of Akron, Ohio, Matt finds inspiration in family life with his wife, their three children, and their golf dog, Gypsy.
The Professor
Host
The Professor
NewClub's Chief Ambassador and every golf sicko's favorite educator. Kevin is a thoughtful and deeply curious host. His studied, constructivist approach adds intellectual enrichment and balance to the show. As a professor of Math Education at the University of Georgia, Kevin's background in applied mathematics and cognitive psychology uniquely informs his insights on golf strategy and performance. Originally from Ohio, Kevin was a Division I collegiate golfer at the University of Akron, where his passion for understanding mathematical thinking began. After earning his doctorate from Arizona State University, he combined his analytical expertise with his love for golf by co-founding Golf Blueprint, an organization aimed at helping golfers optimize their games through data-driven strategies. Kevin enjoys balancing deep philosophical discussions with simple pleasures, such as indulging his sweet tooth, cheering on college football, and spending relaxed evenings with his friends, his wife, and their beloved dog, Nole.

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